Seeking the Symptoms
Written by Mike Young on July 26, 2006 at 8:34 am
I really try to avoid posts like this one as I do not desire to be critical of what others may do. And all I am desiring with this is to assert a position and a caution for those who may read my site. Perhaps, for those whom this hits square on the chin, this may be an exhortation. But I do not wish to engage in any form of bashing.Since Friday I have witnessed a couple things in the blogosphere, which do cause me to be further concerned with those around me who profess Christ. My concern is that we, and I mean that in the generic sense, are chasing rabbits when we should be focusing our attention in other areas.
Now I’ll explain. It all began with a post on Pyromaniacs, where they were awarded recognition by Adrian Warnock as being a cut above the rest. Out of curiosity, I decided to check out what all the hoopla was about. In the course of perusing his site, I started to notice much use of the term “charismatic” in various posts and on the sidebar and with respect to certain authors and pastors. And to make things more curious for me, this term was was actually used in combination with another, “reformed”.
Now, there is a chance that I may be the only person in Christendom to be unacquainted with the classification of “Reformed Charismatic”. Quite frankly, I have operated to a stereotype that all Charismatics talk in gibberish, seek to cast out demons and try to heal one another by smacking folks on the forehead. And while I may be exagerating a bit on this perception, I was pretty much certain that there was an absence of any desire to practice sound hermeneutics.
For these reasons I was humbled and thrilled to find my perceptions shattered when I came across this site to find a group of charismatics who actually take study very seriously and who also happen to love the doctrines of grace. I guess my thrill was partly on the basis that I had all of a sudden imagined a body of Christians who knew and practiced the Gospel of the scriptures and who might possess biblical compassion and brotherly love.
There is another reason for my reaction. A few years back I was befriended by a man at Oral Roberts who lovingly helped me with my transition from Arminianism to a more Calvinistic system of theology. He also pushed for me to continue a more formal pursuit of my studies, which I have certainly taken to heart.
Whenever I tried to explain this friendship to others, it immediately became suspect and criticized. I might as well have been talking about unicorn sightings or even Big Foot. Needless to say, finding out I was not imagining things was quite a comfort. It was right up there with finally being able to identify a system of theology, which explained so much of what I believed and why it was very different from the beliefs of many around me.
Needless to say, I did feel a need to write to Mr. Warnock to express my excitement and my appreciation. You can view my letter to him here. To my surprise, he responded within a matter of minutes. This, in and of itself, was an additional surprise. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried sending an email to someone of this caliber and notoriety. You may as well toss a bottled note into the ocean and expect a response. They just don’t do it unless they actually know you, know of you, or find you extremely controversial. And here I found myself with a very cordial note asking whether I minded my note being published and also pointing me to some very helpful links. And now, as a result of his help, I’m finally enjoying some of the writings of Martyn Lloyd-Jones.
On Tuesday of this week, my note did actually appear as part of a post on Sufficient and Efficient Grace. It was interesting to read what I had said in the context of what Adrian had also to say. And I love the reaction of Dan Phillips
when he read the post, “so, wait, you’re the Reformed Charismatic whose email he quotes at the outset?” I just about died laughing when he asked me that question. I’ve been accused and mistaken for so much over the years; but I don’t think anyone has ever mistaken me for being charismatic.
As I read further, I found myself with an overriding concern and it hit me in this statement from Adrian, “This experience of being overwhelmed by the vastness of the grace and love of God is one I believe is right to seek and to cry out to God for.”
Now, I’m not going to launch into the whole argument about whether or not tongues have expired or not. My position is that those gifts, which the Apostles exhibited, were for establishing their credibility and their authority. With the completion of the canon of scripture, I see no need for such gifts to continue on. Do I have overwhelming proof of this? Nope. And I am not placing God in a box and suggesting he cannot dispense certain gifts if he wanted to. I just happen to believe he has provided a perfect and complete work and that there is no need to improve upon it.
What gets me with this whole notion of seeking after such an increase in experience is that it’s a misplaced desire. Nowhere do we find any of the disciples or apostles seeking after signs, asking for prophecy or praying for tongues. We never find it. And even when our Lord prayed in the garden for us, he didn’t find the need to utilize a special prayer language as some suggest tongues are. But we are exhorted to seek after righteousness. And we are taught and encouraged to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Here’s really the point. Everything in the scriptures directs the Christian to do the following things:
- Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
- Love your neighbor as yourself.
- Love your enemies.
- Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved his church and gave himself for it.
Doctrine, therefore, edifies the inward Christian so that we can in fact carry out these imperatives above. Again, I’d like to emphasize that the focus is inward. As a result of our inward man being first regenerated and then slowly conformed to the image of Christ, we manifest the power of God in our lives. This is a proper cause and effect relationship for the Christian as layed out in the scriptures. The problem with Adrian’s statement is that at the heart of it is a reversal of this relationship so that the focus is on the outward manifestation, which does not necessarily result in the edification or conformity of the inward man.
And lest Adrian thinks I’m just picking on his post, which I am not, the problem holds true for others too. Charismatics certainly don’t have a lock on this. I have found the overwhelming problem with the Fundamentalist movement is that they’re so focused on seeing souls saved, that they too are guilty of losing the plot. Again, their focus is effect then cause, which never happens. The net result of their actions is they tend to produce very weak Christians and many tares.
Of course, those who claim to be reformed are not exempt either. Amongst reformed believers, there is an overwhelming pressure towards intellectual knowledge of doctrine and of what others have written regarding such doctrines. If not guarded, the tendency here is a type of exclusivism, which can at times lead to callousness towards other brothers and towards the lost. Scriptures tell us that knowledge puffs us up. And this isn’t to say we’re to be ignorant people. Not at all. But we are compelled to study scriptures diligently and to make application of it to our lives that we might not sin against God or one another. This cause, in it’s proper place, produces a great effect. We should be careful about deriving our convictions and our presuppositions from books about the scriptures. After all, while they may be very helpful tools, they’re not inspired and are therefore subject to error.
So, I do hope I have been clear on this subject of seeking after external manifestations. And I hope that I have not come across as condescending or critical of Adrian or anyone else, for that matter. Even with all that is currently going back and forth between Adrian’s site and Pyromaniacs, I am glad to know Adrian as a brother and I do believe there is much I can learn from him.
And Adrian, if you happen to honor me with a visit, I want you to know that I really do appeciate you and your ministry; and I do not have one dim view of you at all. Rather, I do hold you in high esteem.
May God bless this post.
Comments (11)
Category: Theological Takes
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Comment by JenniferM
Made Wednesday, 26 of July , 2006 at 11:51 am
I agree fully that what must be examined and applied in our lives as Christians is The Holy Scripture. That is why I am currently studying the epistles, seeking and praying to apply in my life the mandates for God’s holy church, loving my brothers and sisters and praying for them.
Comment by Mike Young
Made Wednesday, 26 of July , 2006 at 2:55 pm
It’s an awesome thing to do; and it bears out our true faith.
Comment by Chelle Y.
Made Thursday, 27 of July , 2006 at 10:46 pm
I love you, Sweetie!
Comment by Gordan
Made Friday, 28 of July , 2006 at 9:04 am
Good thoughts, Mike. I have also been blessed by Lloyd-Jones. His book on preaching, “Preaching and Preachers,” is IMHO simply brilliant.
Comment by Michele
Made Friday, 28 of July , 2006 at 1:37 pm
The best book ever on this subject is Gaffins, “Perspectives on Pentecost,” though it isn’t inspired
it brings a light of insight to this topic with biblical support. I haven’t found any arguments that refute it.
BTW, it took me awhile to read this post because my eyes kept getting fatigued due to the coffee background (hehehehehehe).
Comment by Adrian
Made Saturday, 5 of August , 2006 at 2:38 pm
hey! Thanks for the post – I will try and reply properly in a few days….
Comment by Mike Young
Made Saturday, 5 of August , 2006 at 11:08 pm
Hi Adrian,
I hope you had a great vacation! And please be gentle with me. Remember your profession and that I have a fragile ego
Actually, I would be interested in your reply. I’ve tried to simply approach the other discussion in a hopefully non-confrontational manner. I figured it was applicable to many evangelical segments.
And thanks for visiting. It really is an honor for me.
-Mike
Comment by bryan cornick
Made Thursday, 10 of August , 2006 at 11:23 am
Very interesting and challenging,does that mean you reject the exhortation at the beginning of 1 Cor 14 av covet the best gifts etc I am a pentecostal and love doctrines of GRACE, and read M LLoyd Jones bye
Comment by Mike Young
Made Thursday, 10 of August , 2006 at 12:58 pm
Hi Bryan,
I don’t reject it at all. And I’m totally in favor of us embracing Love to the degree that we’ll love God with all our heart, soul, mind and spirit; and love our neighbor as ourself; and love our brothers and sisters; and even love for our enemies.
I’m totally in favor of folks coveting the “best” gifts. I just can’t understand why so many who seek certain manifestations of the spirit have been incapable of really demonstrating this. And btw, this isn’t applicable to just charismatics. It’s wholly applicable to a whole host of people who claim to believe just like me. If anything, I’m an equal opportunity offender
But in answering your question, the answer is no. I don’t reject it. But I might reject a prioritization or an emphasis. I don’t really know since you and I haven’t gone to that detail.
Comment by Tony Sok
Made Wednesday, 16 of August , 2006 at 11:08 am
Hey Mike,
I was just looking through various blogs and came across yours. Thank you for your comments; they are refreshing and encouraging at the same time.
Although, I would confess to be a reformed charismatic, I was wondering if you would believe also in addition to the credibility and their authority, that the signs and wonders were used for the building of the church. Just wondering.
Anyway, if you would like to know more or whom are “reformed charismatic’s”, I would invite to look at those affiliated with Sovereign Grace Ministries, led by C.J. Mahaney, the website of Sam Storms, and Wayne Grudem’s book on Spiritual Gifts.
Comment by Mike Young
Made Wednesday, 16 of August , 2006 at 7:48 pm
Hi Tony,
I would probably tend to agree with that. I suppose it all depends on how far we want to extend that. I don’t believe in them edifying the practicioner. But I do believe their purpose met with edification of the church.
Thanks for the references. I appreciate it.